Comments on: Your Marks Out Of 10 Please http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/ Start Braindump. Error: Brain not found. Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:46:15 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Aideen Walsh http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-35 Aideen Walsh Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:20:19 +0000 http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-35 I tend to agree on the 'marks out of 10' thing - it really doesn't prove anything, other than what you think the answer they are looking for is. And a coding on the spot test is really only valid, if the victim is asked for pseudo code - as you say, any decent programmer can quickly pick up just about any language - but pseudo code will give an indication of the way they approach a programming problem, and the kind of logic they use - way more useful information than do they know a particular language 'off-by-heart' I work for a guy who uses a basic logic riddle in his interviews - the toss-of-a-coin one, and also asks for pseudo code for the factorial problem. Must look up that asktheheadhunter thing. I tend to agree on the ‘marks out of 10′ thing – it really doesn’t prove anything, other than what you think the answer they are looking for is. And a coding on the spot test is really only valid, if the victim is asked for pseudo code – as you say, any decent programmer can quickly pick up just about any language – but pseudo code will give an indication of the way they approach a programming problem, and the kind of logic they use – way more useful information than do they know a particular language ‘off-by-heart’

I work for a guy who uses a basic logic riddle in his interviews – the toss-of-a-coin one, and also asks for pseudo code for the factorial problem.

Must look up that asktheheadhunter thing.

]]> By: fintanp http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-34 fintanp Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:59:04 +0000 http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-34 Hi Ana. Great seeing you at BarCamp on Saturday... enjoy RailsConf in Oregon next month (boo!). Thanks for the tip about asktheheadhunter.com. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet but it sounds interesting. I think one of the key problems, at least with most small tech companies, is that the people who are responsible for interviewing aren't professional interviewers: they're techies who have risen through the ranks. Everyone knows that being an interviewee requires a certain skill-set but very few interviewers seem to understand, at least in my experience, that there is a skill to giving an interview as well. -- Fintan Hi Ana. Great seeing you at BarCamp on Saturday… enjoy RailsConf in Oregon next month (boo!). Thanks for the tip about asktheheadhunter.com. I haven’t had a chance to look at it yet but it sounds interesting. I think one of the key problems, at least with most small tech companies, is that the people who are responsible for interviewing aren’t professional interviewers: they’re techies who have risen through the ranks. Everyone knows that being an interviewee requires a certain skill-set but very few interviewers seem to understand, at least in my experience, that there is a skill to giving an interview as well.

– Fintan

]]> By: Ana Nelson http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-33 Ana Nelson Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:55:52 +0000 http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-33 My favourite book on getting a job, interviewing etc. is Ask The Headhunter. The author turns the entire job-hunting process on its head, arguing convincingly that the way we do everything from finding a position we wish to apply for, to writing a c.v., to interviewing, is ineffective for both the employer and employee. asktheheadhunter.com has a lot of the book's content online. The book is really about sales, since that's what applying for a job is fundamentally about, and the techniques in the book are equally helpful when seeking a promotion/raise at your current employer, or for the self-employed. I used the techniques in this book when applying for a summer job in college, and they worked so well that I haven't had to look for a job on the open market since then. :-) My favourite book on getting a job, interviewing etc. is Ask The Headhunter. The author turns the entire job-hunting process on its head, arguing convincingly that the way we do everything from finding a position we wish to apply for, to writing a c.v., to interviewing, is ineffective for both the employer and employee. asktheheadhunter.com has a lot of the book’s content online.

The book is really about sales, since that’s what applying for a job is fundamentally about, and the techniques in the book are equally helpful when seeking a promotion/raise at your current employer, or for the self-employed.

I used the techniques in this book when applying for a summer job in college, and they worked so well that I haven’t had to look for a job on the open market since then. :-)

]]> By: fintanp http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-29 fintanp Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:05:21 +0000 http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-29 Hi Brian and thanks for the comment. Actually I disagree with you. I think the coding test issue is a seperate one which does sometimes have merit although as a screening process rather than as a "I've read your CV and spoken to you but now I'm going to ask you to take a test because I can't judge whether or not you're bluffing" response. That's why we have probationary periods, certainly in Ireland. My problem with the marks out of 10 is that they are subjective but in two ways - one is in the person grading themselves and the other is in the person asking for the marks out of 10 - and the expecation behind each of these freqeuntly don't co-incide, leading to false impressions and just hinders rather than helps the recruiting process. Thanks again for the comment. Fintan Hi Brian and thanks for the comment. Actually I disagree with you. I think the coding test issue is a seperate one which does sometimes have merit although as a screening process rather than as a “I’ve read your CV and spoken to you but now I’m going to ask you to take a test because I can’t judge whether or not you’re bluffing” response. That’s why we have probationary periods, certainly in Ireland. My problem with the marks out of 10 is that they are subjective but in two ways – one is in the person grading themselves and the other is in the person asking for the marks out of 10 – and the expecation behind each of these freqeuntly don’t co-incide, leading to false impressions and just hinders rather than helps the recruiting process.

Thanks again for the comment.

Fintan

]]> By: Brian Connell http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-24 Brian Connell Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:56:39 +0000 http://fintanp.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/your-marks-out-of-10-please/#comment-24 I don't have a problem with asking people to mark themselves out of 10 for particular skill sets. Actually, I don't think that you do either, really. What rankles is being asked to write code on-the-spot. This might be acceptable for graduates who have yet to make their own mark, but for a senior techie it's as if your experience and references count for nothing. Also, it's not that meaningless being asked to rank your technical skills either. You'd be surprised at the range of answers you'd get back (especially from the chronically honest), and you'd be surprised at how accurate the answers tend to be (when given)... So you're an 8 ..... hmmmm .... I don’t have a problem with asking people to mark themselves out of 10 for particular skill sets. Actually, I don’t think that you do either, really. What rankles is being asked to write code on-the-spot. This might be acceptable for graduates who have yet to make their own mark, but for a senior techie it’s as if your experience and references count for nothing.

Also, it’s not that meaningless being asked to rank your technical skills either. You’d be surprised at the range of answers you’d get back (especially from the chronically honest), and you’d be surprised at how accurate the answers tend to be (when given)…

So you’re an 8 ….. hmmmm ….

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